Becoming Madison

We know James Madison as the Father of the Constitution. But who was he before that? In this special episode, Dr. Katie Crawford Lackey takes the guest seat to explore the formative years that made Madison who he is.
At 25, Madison was the youngest major figure of the founding era — small, sickly, quiet, and easy to overlook. He never commanded armies or delivered rousing speeches. What he had were ideas, and a framework for thinking about power, human nature, and government that no one else in the room quite possessed. Where did that framework come from?
The answer lies in three Scottish Enlightenment-influenced teachers, a frontier Virginia upbringing, and an unconventional choice to attend the College of New Jersey — the institution we know today as Princeton — rather than William and Mary, where every other wealthy Virginia man of his generation enrolled.
Dr. Crawford-Lackey traces Madison's intellectual development from the schoolroom of Donald Robertson, where a 70-mile horseback journey opened a young boy's mind to Locke, Milton, and Montesquieu, through his years under John Witherspoon at Princeton — where he experienced the Boston Massacre and the Boston Tea Party not as distant news, but as live confirmation of everything the Scottish Enlightenment had taught him about human passion and the limits of reason.
Madison wasn't born a Founding Father. He was made — by a rigorous education, a world in crisis, and the hardest question anyone could ask on the eve of a revolution: What kind of people is government meant to govern?
The answer he arrived at still shapes American democracy today.

Transcript

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Adam Belmar 0:01

Welcome to Consider the Constitution, the podcast that cuts through the noise and provides insight into constitutional issues that directly affect every American. Hosted by Dr. Katie Crawford Lackey and featuring interviews with constitutional scholars, policy and subject matter experts, heritage professionals, and legal practitioners, we examine the rights and responsibilities of citizenship. Consider the Constitution is brought to you by the Robert H. Smith Center for the Constitution at James Madison's Montpelier.

Katie Crawford-Lackey 0:38

Hello and welcome back to Consider the Constitution. I'm Dr. Katie Crawford Lackey with James Madison's Montpelier. And today, I am not your host. Instead, our producer Adam Belmar is stepping into the host chair while I take the role of guest to talk about James Madison's formative years leading up to the American Revolution. Adam is a co-creator of this podcast series, which we launched in 2023. With deep experience in communications, media, and public affairs, he has advised a wide range of organizations, from corporations to nonprofits and advocacy groups. He served as deputy assistant to the president and deputy director to White House Communications for Production. He also spent time at ABC News as a senior producer working on Good Morning America and this week with George Stepanopoulos. Adam, thank you for all that you do behind the scenes on this show and for your willingness to switch roles with me today.

Adam Belmar 1:45

Well, Katie, it is a little different being on this side of the conversation. Usually I'm the one making sure everything runs smoothly behind the scenes. But I think the topic we're exploring today actually demands a bit of role reversal because the story of James Madison is itself a story about transformation. How a young man you would never have predicted would become one of the most consequential thinkers in American history. We tend to tell the story of the American Revolution through its boldest, most visible voices. Yet Madison, small in stature, quiet by nature, only twenty-five years old at the signing of the Declaration of Independence, didn't fit that mold at all. So, Katie, who is Madison in that moment? And what are we missing when we start his story at the Constitution rather than at the beginning?

Katie Crawford-Lackey 2:41

That's a great question to start off with, Adam. The term founding fathers usually conjures a specific kind of figure. George Washington, for example, tall, commanding military leader. Benjamin Franklin is this witty, charming, he's internationally renowned. Thomas Jefferson, of course, is this brilliant writer, philosopher. We also hear sometimes about Patrick Henry, who's a fiery orator who could really grab a room. These figures are very dramatic, they're visible figures, they are larger than life. James Madison was not that. As you noted, he is small in stature, he's often sickly or ill, he's quiet, introverted. He was also one of the youngest major figures at the time of the signing of the declaration. So Washington is 44 years old, Franklin is 70, Jefferson is 33, Patrick Henry's around 40. And then, of course, James Madison is 25. Madison is not leading armies, you know, he's not delivering famous speeches. He wasn't yet writing the documents that would come to define a nation. What Madison brings instead is ideas. And that distinction, I would argue, really matters.

Adam Belmar 4:06

So how does it happen? How does a quiet, bookish young man from rural Virginia become one of the most important political thinkers in American history? Was it always evident? Or was he in some way shaped by forces he couldn't have anticipated?

Katie Crawford-Lackey 4:23

The answer, I would say, lies in two key things. His education and the American Revolution itself. Madison's ideas and his intellectual importance were forged by the instability of the revolutionary period. Now, this means that his boyhood is not just a footnote to the story, it's actually the key to understanding him. So James Madison, for context, he's born in 1751 as the eldest of 12 children. He grows up in a Virginia colony that is still very much part of this British Empire. You know, it's not a revolutionary world yet that he's born into. It's hierarchical, it's Anglican, it's a plantation society. But it's also a developing and uncertain one, especially here in the Piedmont region where Montpelier is located. It's really kind of on the edge of Virginia's settled frontier at that time. One defining moment comes around when he's age 10-ish. His father commissions the construction of a large brick mansion on the family's plantation, Montpelier, as we know it today. Madison later recalls helping carry furniture into this new home. So this is a vivid enough memory that he is writing about it. It stays with him for decades. That construction project signals something important. James Madison Sr., his father, was the wealthiest planter in Orange County and one of the largest landowners in the Piedmont. And with that wealth came opportunity. Specifically, the kind of rigorous education that would shape the future so-called father of the Constitution. So Madison is benefiting from this kind of wealth. This is an indicator of the opportunities he is going to have.

Adam Belmar 6:14

When we talk about Madison's education, I want to make sure we get at something beyond the curriculum, the list of subjects he studied. Because from everything I've read working on this series, it seems like how he learned to think was just as important as what he was taught. Is that a fair reading?

Katie Crawford-Lackey 6:34

That's exactly right. Madison's thought process, the framework through which he approached problems, is just as important as the content of his education, if not more so. And that framework was heavily shaped by the Scottish Enlightenment. So for a bit of context, in the 1700s and early 1800s, Scotland produced a remarkable surge of intellectual and scientific thought. So think figures like David Hume and Adam Smith, who we've discussed on the podcast before. Scotland became part of Great Britain in 1707, and the absorption of the Scottish Parliament into the British Parliament was, in part, a catalyst for this. What emerged was a tradition of inquiry rooted in human reason. And it was also a rejection of authority that couldn't be justified through reason. But here's what makes Scottish Enlightenment thinking particularly relevant to Madison. It rejected the idea that people were naturally rational and virtuous. Instead, it argued that humans are driven by passions, self-interests, habits, and social pressures. Does this sound familiar? Hopefully so, because this is exactly what Madison would spend his career grappling with in the context of government, which he serves in for much of his life. He even writes in Federalist number 49, but it is the reason alone of the public that ought to control and regulate the government. The passions ought to be controlled and regulated by the government. That idea that government exists to manage human nature and not assume its bests really runs through so much of what Madison builds. And he's really encountering it first through three key teachers during this younger period of his life.

Adam Belmar 8:25

Let's meet those teachers. Who are they? And what does each one add to Madison's intellectual foundation?

Katie Crawford-Lackey 8:32

Yeah, that's a wonderful question. The first teacher who we should know about is Donald Robertson. When Madison's around 11, he travels roughly 70 miles to a boarding school in King and Queen County in eastern Virginia, so well away from Montpelier in the Piedmont region, to study under this man, Robertson, who is a Scottish Enlightenment thinker. Now, schools in the colonies at that time, it was not typical for there to be schools. Typically, wealthy planters would either send their students back to England to be educated, where there is kind of this long tradition of academic teaching, or they would hire a private tutor. So this is a really unique experience for young Madison. The journey itself to this boarding school takes about three to seven days on horseback, which tells you something about how seriously his family is taking his education. You know, he is the first son, he's the one who's going to be educated. So Madison's going to study there for about five years alongside 30 or 40 other students from the region. And the curriculum is substantial. He's learning Latin, Greek, French. He's also learning algebra, geometry, geography, literature, and so on. Equally important, though, is the method of learning. Robertson exposes Madison to foundational texts. So we know that in the school library, he has access to books such as John Locke's Essay Concerning Human Understanding, John Milton's Paradise Lost, and Montesquieu's Spirit of the Laws. The concepts in those books don't just inform the American Revolution, they also directly inform the drafting of the Constitution. Now, the second teacher that I would point you to is Reverend Thomas Martin. So at 16, Madison returns to Montpelier and studies for two years under Martin. This is a private tutor who's Scotch-Irish, he is steeped in Scottish Enlightenment thought. Martin attended the College of New Jersey, and it's Martin in part who guides Madison towards attending that institution as well. Which brings us to teacher number three, John Witherspoon, who is the president of the College of New Jersey. He is a well-known Scottish Presbyterian minister. And I would argue that he's the most significant intellectual influence of Madison's formative years.

Adam Belmar 11:00

The College of New Jersey, Princeton, today, feels like an unusual choice for a young man from a wealthy Virginia family. His contemporaries, Jefferson and Monroe among them, went to William and Mary. What drew Madison to New Jersey? And what did that choice mean for how he developed?

Katie Crawford-Lackey 11:21

This is a really key decision for Madison. Wealthy Anglican Virginia men went to William and Mary. That was the expected path. There's not a lot of college opportunities in the colonies at the time, but that is the school that wealthy Virginia men attended. Now, Madison chose differently, and that choice was deliberate. In part, it had to do with the climate. So for those of you not from Virginia, it gets very, very hot and muggy, not always during the summer, but definitely during the summer. You know, the climate is not great in that part of Virginia, especially if you're sickly. New Jersey is seen as having cleaner air, fresher. So there is an element of health consciousness going into this. But also it's the reputation of the school that draws Madison there. The College of New Jersey was known for what it called a spirit of liberty and free inquiry. At the time, Virginia had a state religion. So there was an official religion of the colony. It was the Church of England or Anglican. So you really had to abide by that religion, or you had to pay certain fines, get certain licenses if you were going to preach another religion. However, that is not true in the colony of New Jersey. There is no official sanctioned state religion. So there is a level of freedom to speak and worship that's not present in Virginia Colony. This is an environment that encouraged intellectual debates rather than just kind of giving students doctrine, you know, memorize and regurgitate. Madison, in fact, was sharp enough to pass the freshman examination and enter school as a sophomore. He then compressed three years of study into two, graduating in the summer of 1771, after arriving in September of 1769. Now, two things I want to note that are worth pausing for. The first being the learning experience itself. Unlike William and Mary, the College of New Jersey encouraged students to formulate their own thoughts, not simply memorize things. It really was an open environment where ideas were contested. For example, religious debates on Sundays were a regular feature. Students are encouraged to dialogue, disagree with each other. And under Witherspoon's leadership, the focus was on moral philosophy. So, you know, ethics, economics, political science, history, current events, and different forms of government. Students and faculty, including the president himself, often shared the dining hall. You know, this is an example of how proximity matters. Students are encouraged to interact with their teachers. Now, second, I want to note the external context. In 1770, just before Madison turns 19, he's at Princeton during the Boston Massacre. In 1773, he witnesses the fallout from the Boston Tea Party. Now, I will note that we do not have diary entries from Madison, you know, describing what he was thinking and feeling about each of the events, unfortunately. However, we do know that these are not distant events. They are shaping the political conversations that he is immersed in every single day. And because of his education, he doesn't see these events simply as you know acts of protest or conflict. He's actually seeing deeper questions. What is the nature of authority? Why do governments overreach? How do human passions lead to conflict? And it's the Scottish Enlightenment that has taught him that people are not naturally rational. And now, at this point, he is watching that play out in real time.

Adam Belmar 15:13

So when the revolution begins, when everything he's been educated about suddenly becomes live political reality, where is Madison mentally and philosophically? He's not a general, he's not a Patrick Henry. What is he?

Katie Crawford-Lackey 15:30

You're right. He is not a general. He had a very brief stint in the militia, and it was a disaster. So he serves in a different capacity. He actually serves at the Virginia Convention, drafting the Virginia Constitution, while Jefferson is drafting the Declaration of Independence. So he's serving a different role, but equally important. And even though we don't necessarily include Madison when we think about founding fathers, these great Washington or Jefferson-like figures, however, at this time, Madison is prepared to think about the fundamental problem at the center of the revolution itself. And that is the relationship between human nature and government. And that is everything the Constitution is about. Madison understands that power can be abused, that factions will indeed form, that liberty is fragile, and that it can be lost not just through tyranny from above, but also through the passions of people themselves. That's something we don't talk enough about, I think. It's not just about tyranny from a leader. It's about the people if we give in to our passions. Those insights formed in the classrooms during his youth are sharpened by this crisis. And I would argue later produce the Constitution and the Bill of Rights through Madison.

Adam Belmar 16:53

Katie, one of the things that strikes me about this framing is that we usually look at Madison retrospectively. We know how the story ends. So we read everything backward. But you're asking us to go forward with him to understand that none of this was inevitable.

Katie Crawford-Lackey 17:11

Exactly. When we look back at Madison, it is tempting to start at the end. The Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Presidency. And I will acknowledge that we do have a lot of records from that period, more so than we have of his childhood. However, at Montpelier, we're able to reconstruct a lot through the landscape itself, the architecture, through the archaeology, our collections, through our research, the documents, and a key point, by putting all of that in conversation with each other and in context. And if we focus on Madison just in terms of the Constitution at that point and after, we miss one of the most important parts of his story, one of the most interesting and fun to learn about. You know, Madison is not born a founding father. He is made. He's made by this frontier world full of uncertainty. He's made by a rigorous enlightenment education. And he's made by, I mean, really, a generation-defining political crisis. Before he helped design this new government, he spent years asking a very hard question. What kind of people is government meant to govern? You cannot design a government unless you have a realistic understanding of human nature. This is so key to understanding the constitutional story. It's a part of this history we must focus on in more depth. And it's this question that Madison was asking, that he first encountered in the classrooms of his youth, that still shapes our democracy today.

Adam Belmar 18:53

That's a remarkable lens. And I think it fundamentally changes how you hear the Constitution when you know the intellectual journey behind it. Dr. Katie Crawford Lackey, this has been a genuinely illuminating conversation. Thank you for the research, the framing, and for trusting me with the hosting chair today.

Katie Crawford-Lackey 19:13

Thank you so much, Adam, for switching places with me today and letting me share these insights on James Madison.

Adam Belmar 19:19

For our listeners, if today's episode sparked questions about Madison's world, we'd love to hear from you. And if you haven't visited James Madison's Montpelier yet, I'll simply say it's worth the trip. I'm Adam Belmar, and I hope you'll join us again in two weeks as we consider the Constitution.